Quote from Boris Lozac :

Yea, but tell that to the "Floating boys"....

please...

There are two ways to think about simulation: car simulation and race simulation.

The car simulation does not need a pair in real life cause you just need to model you own car with those things you think is enough to give you a feel of driving. Of course that is not easy to do, but it is easy to understand. So LFS is a car simulator, but yet with too many things to be done to become so realistic as GTR, where you can find many other things being simulated, things that are not still in LFS, but will... someday... I hope...

In the other hand, when you think about race simulations, you need to keep the word "simulation" in mind, cause one thing it to have a race using the computer, and that can be ni any format, since arcades like toca series until netkar pro ultra-realistic scenario, and other thing is to have a real-life race simulated.

A good example of what is to simulate a race is the GP F1 series from Geoff Crammond. That is a real race simulator.

LFS is not a race simulator cause it does not simulate any pair in real life. It is a racing game with car being simulated. The race is real, it is there, it is not simulated, you are racing against other people in a virtual tray, so you are not simulating anything, just racing. It is the opposite to seat at Schumaker's cockpit and think that you are doing what he did in Barcelona someday.

I don't expect that too much people understand or agree with my point of view, but I think that LFS is the BEST racing game for multiplayer purposes, and a good tyre/suspension simulator, but not the best racing simulator.

The word "simulator" when applied to a race is more about GPL or GTR than rFactor mods (there are 2 or 3 that worth the pain) or LFS. When applied to a car, I guess GTR series is the best at this moment, not because it has the best physics or feeling (and it has not), but because it simulates much better more things (and in a good format) than LFS.

But if the contest was about gameplay, multiplayer content, tyre physics and force feedback, surely would be fair to say that LFS wins the trophy.

Last edited by Speed Soro, Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:31.

Quote from The General Lee :

Sorry if this has been asked before...

But, most people on this forum will agree that LFS is one of, if not the best racing sim available. I have seen videos on YouTube of LFS and in the comments it says, "Best sim ever!!"

It got me thinking...
What makes LFS so much better than other Race Sims that you would buy off the shelf?

LFS is only made by 3 guys, whereas other racer sims have teams of hundreds, but LFS is still classed as the best by alot of people. Why so? I admit, it is a brilliant game, and I love it. But when makes is that extra bit special?

The best sim is still to be done, but LFS has many good things, and I think its best is the raw force feedback which gives a big sense of immersion.

But I don't know if the majority of the serious simracers stick with LFS.

I guess the crowd from GPL is more about rFactor and GTR than LFS. I don't know for sure... many of them are still with Nascar 2003 and even GPL indeed.

People from LFS community is more activist and LFS is much older than rF and GTR, so when sites or magazines promote some contestes is natural that LFS becomes the more voted, but that does not mean that it is the best.

I guess there is no the best, not yet. It depends on what exactly your are looking for in a simulator to find one that fits with your taste.

It is like Jesus or Buddha... you make your choice, and for you HE is the best, don't matter WHO is HE in fact.

Everything that could be done I did. Nothing worked until I had a smart idea.

I remember about other installation that I have in my hd. There it was, and in that installation all controllers worked, and FFB worked correctly too.

So, I copied the entire MISC folder from this old installation to the new installation and now FFB works...

So, it is obvious that it is a problem with some file or config in LFS inside MICS folder. There are some files related to controlers in that folder, but some of then are encrypted, and I don't know what could be the reason.

So, I suggest for those, that like me got more than one ffb joystick, to keep a clean copy of the MISC folder just for the case it becomes necessary some day.

Thanks for the support people.

Silvio

That is not the first time I ask for help with the same problem.

I have searched for help at LFS team, but neither Scawen nor Victor could answer me properly about my case.

I got 3 wheels connected to my pc, but FFB does not work.

Two of the wheels above have FFB (1 MOMO Black and 1 Force GP), but I just use the MOMO wheel. From Force GP I use the pedals.

The third wheel is Formula GP (yellow wheel) that has no FFB and has no effect on this case.

I know everything very well about how to proceed with menu in LFS, and I know very weel how to proceed with Profiler, but I can't find a way to have the FFB back to the game since I reinstalled patch W last week (now it is X).

It is not acceptable for me that such ridiculous bug can not be solved.

My set of wheels work fine with every other game, I mean: RBR, RF, GTL, GTR2, NKP, and even Dirt Demo.

But not, LFS does not work, devs cannot resolve and I can't play this game without FFB after 3 years.

So, who could make me a BIG favour and let me know if there is something obscure inside Windows or even in LFS that could fix this S***?

Very frustrated...

hehehe of course I did Venus

Look my avatar: almost 3 years with LFS.

This is not the first time that this problem occur.

One time I had this problem, but I solved it removing the energy source from the Force GP wheel, so FFB turned off and LFS could work.

Now I tried everything I think is possible, but nothing solves the problem.

I changed all profiles in Logitech software, I try disconnect and connect the wheels, I change them from usb ports, and tec. Ah, and of course I know exactly what to do in the game menu

Sad...

The problem still remains. I send a email to lfsteam but they couldn't solve. I couldn't figure out if it was Victor or Scawen that answered.


Scawen, if your read this, do you have any idea what could be happening?

For me, almost 3 years after playing with FFB it is almost impossible and totally annoying to play without it...

Despite of personal offenses (and I don't remember from myself attacking anyone here), it is too much blablabla, too much shabby excuses, and really too little progress in "THAT THINGS THAT MATTER".

Obviously I know how hard to program can be, under the midday sun, working as a camel for so long, it is very hard for everyone.

And being it so hard why to waste so much time and energy doing things like new aliases for old commands, and tons of pretties that has nothing with simulation?

Like Creedence said in that music: rolling, rolling, rolling...

Well, for me this thread is finished. Once more my questions were not answered, the fanboys yelled much louder, and blablabla, bye bye see you tchau.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Nice.

I dont think it is a self owned or whatever. It just proves that how much time has passed by and nothing substantial happens.

It means, I'm right, you are wrong, and Scawen is postponing for too much time the things that are really necessary to a real simulator.

Scawen, "soon" in English means "within a short time"?

And short time means? Ok.. let's forget the "when". This is not a "when" thread.

Scawen, you know I'm not bashing you, I really respect you and your work and trully love this game, but after watch for so long time your enforcement in peripheral things that the most are not really necessary, I start concerning if the "part that matters" of the game is just what we see right now.

You always say about plans, but you always hide what is planned.

I just want to know "what" things "will" be in this game, cause after so many months I start distrusting in such obscure plan.

What is S3 in the end?

I'd like to know if LFS is good as it is, cause if Scawen stop studing and working on the simulation, the logic tell me that this part of the game is ready.

Is it good at this stage?

Because for months and months I've heard that this bs of infinites resources has been necessary to make the game stronger, consistent and free of bugs.

In fact I can imagine that each time you filled a software with bs, it becomes weak, dangerous and unstable... ok, this is not the real fact with LFS, cause it is still a game with great stability, even being a DX8 based game in the ages of DX10...

But the big question is: is this the big simulator ever? I think that it is in the mind of the majority of this community, and maybe in the dev's heads too, cause I can't see nobody concerning when or how the things will be made to better perform a real simracing.

Where is the oil heating, brake waste, and water boiling?

Will people lose the engine when reducing from 6th to 2nd in a half second?

Will the aerodynamic be seriously calculated and performed?

Will we be able to step at 20 kmh on the grass without skid?

Will the cars stop flying 30m above when soft touch a wall or other car?

No, this is not thread "WHEN". I don't really want to know when. I just ask for a "WILL"...

I made a new installation of version u, then patch to V2 and patch to W.
I have 3 wheels connected to pc, being:

- 1 Logitech MOMO with no pedals, from which I use just the wheel.
- 1 Logitech Force GP, with no power (so FFB does not work), from which I use the pedals for gas and handbrake.
- 1 Logitech Formula GP, from which I use the pedals for brake and clutch.

LFS identify that I got 2 FFB joysticks, but no matter which I set, the FFB remains dead

I have got another instalation with W40 that all works fine.

Any light?

The date is coming, can we expect for some gift?

People, sorry I had no patience to read everything in this thread, so maybe the answer can be lost in any post, but my question is the following:

I have a SLI ready mother board, but at this moment with just one PCI-E VGA installed.

If I installed a second VGA, it will have 4 DVI connectors, which teorically permits to attach 4 monitors, at least 3. With a configuration like that, is possible to have the 3 monitors working togheter in a Horizontal Spam, without any aditional hardware or software?

nVidia drivers permitis since long time ago to have two monitors in many variations, but I completly ignore if it is possible to have three.

Apart from that, the options I have seen is:

- TH2GO from Matrox.
- Software from Kegetys.

Any other solution?

Thank you very much,

Silvio

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I can only think you haven't read the last few pages of this thread, and even if that's true, this is still a brutally uninformed and unconstructive comment.

Scawen, thanks for all the work you do, and sorry if we occasionally get too hung up on the small stuff.

From w17 to w20 almost 2 weeks, from w21 to w99 will 40 weeks? hehehe

ok... lets wait!

Dear Scawen,

When will you stop lingering and do something substantial?

Like physics improvement... :banghead:

Drift is a way without back. Once the physics of the game allows drifting, people will drift... young people love drift you know.

There is a way to avoid people ask for track or other drift things: make a weird physics such RF which does not permit drift an these people will say goodbye...

Quote from Whitmore :

Horses for courses.

GPL is the best 60s open wheeler sim
NR2003 is the best NASCAR sim
Rally Trophy is the best 60s/70s rally sim
RBR is the best modern rally sim
GTL is the best historic GT and touring car sim
GTR2 is the best modern GT sim
rFactor is the best mod platform
LFS is the best fictional multi-class sim

and I would think NetKar Pro will be the best hillclimbing sim

It is obvious that a topic entitled like this topic would fell down in the old and wasted discussion "My Sim is better than your Sim".

Again? That is comedy.. very funny

I know nothing about how a simulator is made, but as a heavy user I realize some things that are different in LFS facing the others.

One thing that for me differs LFS, is "to be inside" of the game.

RBR, RF (and its mods such Simbins games) and NKP look like I am sat within a simulator cabin, with a screen in front of me rolling the track, in the same manner of those malls "simulators".

I could say that there are two enviroments in those games, one is the cabin, other is the world outside that you see on the screen.

That is so evident that if you change the camera from inner to outer one, you notice that the things change in something. You loose the contact.

I'm not saying anything about the physics. It is just that feel of "to be inside".

LFS is different. It gives the sensation that I'm "in" the game. Everything happens in one unique environment, your car and the track are in the same virtual space, and you are there.

So when you change your point of view (from the inner camera to outer camera, or from your car to the others cars), the "things" are still there, the same 3d models, the same environment, the same textures, the same everything.

Things don't change when you change your camera, cause there are no tricks, there are no virtual inside the virtual, there are no lies, everything in that little virtual world is true in some form.

This manner of doing the thing is probably the best element of the fantastic immersion that LFS gives.

The other thing and this is as so important as, is the Force Feedback. The FFB of LFS has no effects trying to imitate something real. It only reacts to the forces that act on the tyres and suspension arms, nothing more than that.

That feels real, that is sincere, that gives immersion.

The physics of LFS is not an accurated model of the reality, but it is related with its own world. And it is fiel to itself.

I use to say that LFS is not a car simulator, but a racing game with a virtual environment that imitates cars and tracks.

It has its own world with its own physics, and you feel it cause you are inside the game.

As I always say and it is on my signature: LFSensation, you know when you feel.

There is not the best simulator. There are many good simulators each one fitting the tastes of their publics on those attributes they have better.

So, RF community is happy for the unnumbered mods (too much crap), Simbin fans have the real world link, LFS has the mp and gameplay and so on.

Quote from The General Lee :

Sorry if this has been asked before...

But, most people on this forum will agree that LFS is one of, if not the best racing sim available. I have seen videos on YouTube of LFS and in the comments it says, "Best sim ever!!"

It got me thinking...
What makes LFS so much better than other Race Sims that you would buy off the shelf?

LFS is only made by 3 guys, whereas other racer sims have teams of hundreds, but LFS is still classed as the best by alot of people. Why so? I admit, it is a brilliant game, and I love it. But when makes is that extra bit special?

It is better than others due the set. Its immersion is the same that NKP, but NKP has not the enormous mp and gameplay resources, neither the various car models and tracks layouts.

But the physics behavior of the car and its handling of NKP is better than LFS, however NKP has not the same tyre deformation and calculation level.

LFS still needs to be improved, from grip to aero, from graphics to sound, and still has too many lacks that Scawen wisely keeps reserved and provide each 6 months with the dropper.

Simbin games has natural driving, good looking and superb sampled sounds, but can't give the same imersion than those both.

RBR has the best physics in certain situations, a like-real graphics (lights and colours) and amazing sounds, and the best ever made behavior when crashing and keeling over.

I think LFS is the best for who knows it once had used to it. But if you are new to it, you'll realize many things that is not good enough.

The best simulator is about to be done, but not yet. The various simulators are good in many points, one completing the lack of the other and vice-versa.

Quote from SamH :

If you'd like to take a replay, and make two videos where the action in them is not absolutely identical, I'd be interested to see that.

SPRs and MPRs are made differently. SPRs do contain only controller input data (apart from the obvious car settings/track/laps info). MPRs are different because they do rely on packets of positional data and controller inputs, and interpolate between those packets using physics calculations to project the flow of motion/events.

Sure I won't do this, but probable it happens

If it confirms that the result will be same in 1000 times I play the replay, I would be induced to believe that the physics is something made in gesso, I guess maybe it is missing something natural, some aleatory dependence of the chaos, what would guide me to beleive that is possible to a very trained simdriver to reach the perfection once he had found all the exactly points and times to make the right inputs, what is impossible to reach in the real driving due the unpredictable nature of the things...what a trip... forget

Quote from Jakg :

how? it takes the inputs and makes a calculation, the answer can't change, its like this

First replay run:
1+1=2
2nd replay run:
1+1=2
3rd replay run:
1+1=1.5

Not exactly, I said like this:

First replay run:
1.00000001 + 1.00000001 = 2.00000002
2nd replay run:
2.00000002 + 1.00000001 = 3.00000003
n replay run:
n.999999999 + 1.00000001 = n+2 (where should be n+1)

I don't know if it could happen, it just curiosity.

Android, so you are telling that a replay is just a banch of controller inputs data?

It means that there is no intermediate position of all the cars, their velocities and directions stored in any point that would possibility to start a replay from the midle?

But as you suggested, that does not look so difficult to store intermediate position data, things like one save each split time place.

-----

Just talking, considering that each time we play the replay we have a new fresh game happening, the replay could happen in a different way each time due some rounding in the calculation, cause everything depends on the first start of the race?

As an example, if we have an accident with many cars, each one reacting with others in many directions and performing many damages, each time I play the replay the calculations and all that interation will be the same or could be inserted some errors that would make the replay be different?